On a day when we are celebrating Barack Hussein Obama’s election as the first black president and the forty-fourth president of the United States, we are also mourning the fact that those who have benefited most from the struggle against discrimination are now wielding the bludgeon themselves. While half of the white voters in California opposed Proposition 8 (the attempt to marginalize and discriminate against a minority population based on what makes them a minority), and half of the Latino population as well, fully seven in ten black voters supported taking away people’s right to marry each other.
I have many friends who are black. I have friends who are gay. I have some friends who are both. I don’t believe that any of them should be told that they can or cannot do something simply because of those facts. However, I have had to argue with my black friends that they shouldn’t be practicing discrimination, shouldn’t be supporting the legal differentiation between people. They should know better, if they know anything about the history of the United States.
“Laws prohibiting miscegenation [marriage between people of different races] in the United States date back as early as 1661 and were common in many states until 1967.”
Proposition 8 on the California ballot is another miscegenation law. Plain and simple. And if you don’t understand that, let me explain in another way how gay is the new black.
When my grandfather, a black man born in 1921 in Monroe, Lousiana, joined the Army of the United States, he was placed and fought in a segregated unit. His commanding officer was white, by Army regulations. He was not allowed to mix with, serve with, fight with, bleed with, and in some cases, die with, white soldiers because he was black. President Truman finally ended this ridiculous practice with an executive order, and today black white brown yellow red and all other colors and types serve the United States of America in the armed services without restriction. We also have soldiers of Christian, Jewish, Muslim and many other religious affiliations serving, because discrimination based on ethnicities, based on religious beliefs, based on who people are is wrong.
In 1992, Bill Clinton came into office promising to finally remove the last “okay” discrimination, so that gay Americans could serve their country without fear of retribution, prosecution or expulsion because of their sexual orientation. He copped out, giving us “Don’t ask, Don’t tell.” Gay men and women are now allowed to serve in the armed forces of the United States, but only if they hide their sexuality. They are not allowed to be themselves, share their lives with their fellow soldiers, read a magazine that appeals to their natures publicly, for fear of discharge. If they keep their “secret”, they are allowed to serve our country. They are discriminated against. Gay is the new black.
A friend of mine argues that homosexuality is wrong because of his religious beliefs. I disagree with his interpretation, but I accept his right to that belief. Even then, Proposition 8 is wrong. It’s wrong because in this country, you are not married by your church, or synagogue, or mosque. In order to be married, you have to get a license from the State. If you don’t get legal permission from the government, you are not married. I know that many people feel that that part is the formality, and that the church service is the important part – but don’t you remember after you came down from the altar, going in the back with the minister and the witnesses, and signing your marriage certificate? Doesn’t the minister also say, “by the power vested in me by the state of “? Marriage today is not the sole province of the church, though it is still a sacrament and it is sacred.
Proposition 8 is another us and them. It’s Plessy v. Ferguson in 2008. It’s the Fugitive Slave Law for the modern “others”, those people who are looked at by the majority as THEM. The question, then, is this: are you on the side of the slave catchers, or on the side of the slaves? Are you watching the bodies swing from the tree, or are you helping people get out of town?
Gay is the new black, when laws are being passed that make homosexuals different in the eyes of the law. It is no longer fashionable for those “lunatics, crazies and fringe people” who were shouting at the McPalin rallies to be in the mainstream. But it is okay for liars to write laws and propositions that “protect traditional marriage”?
And what happens, once this law is passed, if they try to “protect real traditional marriage”? Is someone in a few years going to tell my African-Chilean-Mexican-American children that they can’t marry because the person they love is white? Gay is the new black . . .
Same-sex marriage bans paradoxical in historic election
California high court will hear appeal of gay marriage measure
12 responses so far ↓
Tony // November 7, 2008 at 8:42 pm |
You are making a case here that gay marriage is a civil rights issue. That is an extreme position to take. Comparing the black experience to the people’s choice of not allowing gay marriage is a slap in the face to all black people. Those of us on the right believe black people were created exactly equal to white people. Our country used to not think this way and it was obviously wrong. The reason we believe we are all equal according to race is because our opinion is that God made us in his image and we were all created equally by him. We believe God does not make some races better than others. But the difference in the race issue and homosexuality is we believe black and white people were born that way. God makes us black or white. We do not believe people are born gay. Our opinion is that homosexuality is a learned (or in some cases taught) behavior. In other words, I have seen with my own eyes gay people be “set free” from their homosexuality. But a black man cannot be “set free” from his blackness because it is a PROVEN FACT that he was born black. There is absolutely, categorically no way to prove a person was born gay. There is no evidence to arrive to a scientific hypothesis or theory much less fact. I know gay marriage proponents may not agree with this position but at least now you can understand where we are coming from. It’s healthy to have the debate! Good Day!
ReyMac // November 7, 2008 at 8:58 pm |
Tony-
You assume that people are NOT born gay. You assume that it is a choice. I ask you only this: Were you born straight, or did you choose to be heterosexual? Now you can understand where I, a “proven black” heterosexual man is coming from. It is a civil rights issue because the healthy debate is the same one that people were having about black people and white people forty years ago . . . and they used the Bible to justify their ignorance, too. If you notice, I’m not questioning whether you believe homosexuality is right or not. What I’m saying is that this IS a civil rights issue because marriage is regulated by the government, not the church. The healthy debate doesn’t take that into account. You’re arguing whether homosexuality is a choice. That’s not the point.
Tony // November 7, 2008 at 9:13 pm |
I believe ALL humans are born straight. It’s just how we on the right believe. It is our opinion. (Backed up by science, but we will leave that for another day). To respond to your comment about marriage being government regulated. You are correct. But, we as Christian conservatives believe being gay is a sin based solely on the Bible. The problem is that we do not like our government condoning and rewarding sinful behaviour. Tax credits and the like are rewards, not rights, extended to married couples. They are rewarded to encourage strong family structures between one man and one woman. While our country has taken a sharp turn toward secularism starting in the 1990’s, we are still a majority Christian nation. Homosexuals know they will not get their way until they can remove this wall of Christianity that stands in their way. So for this, we are fiercely defensive. But anyway, as I said, our belief stems from the fact that we do not like the government supporting issues we think are sinful, be it gay marriage, abortion, etc. Again, it’s only our opinion that these things are sinful, but it is where we stand. Thanks for the response.
ReyMac // November 8, 2008 at 10:04 am |
The only problem with the rationale laid bare bellow is this: We live in a country of laws, not based on the bible. Were we living in a theocracy, you would be entirely correct. None of the arguments you had elucidated, while I disagree with many of the assumptions you have made even as they relate to God’s intentions, argue for voting in favor of discrimination. It is that simple. We live in a country where at one time, white people used the same arguments to prevent the marriage of white and black citizens. You also argue that a society with exclusive homosexual marriage would not propagate, as if somehow people only have children inside the confines of marriage.
When the State is the gate-keeper for institutions such as marriage, and there are tangible benefits to it such as differentiation on taxation just to name one, then discrimination is discrimination – period. There is not (or I have yet to hear) an argument which accounts for this fact: citizens are being differentiated today for their sexual orientation, for the way that God made them, the same way they were before being discriminated for the color of their skin, which is also the way God made them.
And saying that people are infusing emotion just to cloud the argument shies away from the actual difficulty of recognizing that just because something is right (the defeat of discrimination by the government against a minority group of people with the support of the majority) doesn’t make it easy of comfortable.
Tony // November 8, 2008 at 8:57 pm |
I’m sorry sir. I fully understand your point of view. The problem is that you will never comprehend mine. I think the will of the ppl in a democracy should be respected. Such is the case with our new president being elected…the ppl spoke. The ppl also speak loud and clear in state after state after state regarding gay marriage. The overwhelming majority in our nation think gay marriage is wrong. For the time being, respect your democracy. End of story.
ReyMac // November 8, 2008 at 10:14 pm |
Comprehension and agreement are two different things. I do “fully understand your point of view.” I just don’t agree. The will of the people is exactly what I’m talking about: In the early 1900s, the will of the people said that segregation was good; what you are saying is that that is still true. I simply disagree. The “overwhelming majority in our nation” haven’t spoken on gay marriage, straight marriage, or any other type. It appears to me a vocal and well-funded minority is attempting to ram-rod the issue without significant reflection upon the legality and constitutionality of the issue. I’m not arguing morality or religious belief. And as much as I wish it was, I don’t believe it is the end of the story.
jkrump // November 9, 2008 at 3:53 am |
homosexual- adjective 1. sexually attracted to members of your own sex [ant: bisexual, heterosexual]
noun 1. someone who practices homosexuality; having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex
I (a Black man), too, am offended by your association of homosexuality with heritage. And while I understand that we will ultimately agree to disagree on what we believe I would ask you several questions about how you can make such an assertion, then will try to articulate WHAT I believe while attempting not to be disagreeable.
First let me suggest that a person’s “being”- what a person is, is materially different from an orientation/preference which is based on a person’s choice. Let me further suggest that there is a difference between a person’s choosing what is morally good, right, or proper versus a person’s choosing what is immoral, wrong, or improper.
That said, I would ask how you equate what someone IS, “blackness”, something that we can agree a person has no control over, cannot change, that is neither moral nor immoral, with homosexuality which has to do with a person’s preference and choice (it seems to me that it would be more logical for you to equate homosexuality with pedophilia which is also a preference than with blackness)?
To do this logically, wouldn’t you have to believe that persons are born homosexual without ability or choice to change (to which I would ask, What is your basis for this assumption/belief?) But if that is the case, how do you account for homosexuals who have come out of that lifestyle
Please answer the questions rather than dissecting my opinion; I am simply exercising my right to express what I believe as you have.
You may wonder what would make me capable of such ignorance as to feel differently than you so let me explain my “ignorance”.
1. I am one of “them” that believe there is one true God (in three seperate co-eternal, co-equal persons) who has revealed Himself in nature, through His prophets, through the scriptures (Old and New Testaments), and in His Son Jesus. He is altogether HOLY, RIGHTEOUS, GOOD, JUST, LOVING, WISE, POWERFUL, ETERNAL, IMMUTABLE, OMNIPRESENT.
2. I believe He created us, sustains us, provided salvation for us exclusively in His Son Jesus, and He reserves the prerogative to judge and sentence us according to the standard HE has established entirely apart from what you, I, or anyone else thinks.
3. I believe there is objective truth (that which is accurate, according to reality, and verifiable), and right and wrong that is not determined by man, culture, era, and is not subject to interpretation, but determined by the one true God as expressed in His self-revelation, the Bible. Furthermore, said truth does not change because a person doesn’t believe it- no more than gravity goes away just because someone says they don’t accept the concept.
4. My reason for believing homosexuality is morally wrong is wholly because the One who made us, who is the Alpha and Omega, declares it so. For the same reason I believe lying, stealing, gossipping, greed, adultery, and a host of other attitudes and actions are wrong.
5. Apart from what I expressed above, I am convinced of the veracity of God’s word, the Bible, because in my own personal search for answers and truth I have found God’s word to provide answers that without fail are in accord with what is real and verifiable. Moreover, although God’s word, at times, condemns my own thoughts, motivations, and behaviors, my daily walk with Him the last 26 years has produced greater hope, joy, and peace than I ever imagined precisely because I am able to be honest with Him about my condition knowing that He knows me better than I know myself, accepts me unconditionally, sent His Son Jesus to die for me, and has forgiven me based on my faith in His Son, His word, and His person. Moreover, He has empowered me to be able to discern between truth and error, live in a way that reflects His holy character, and accomplishes His will. On top of that He has anchored my soul in such a way as to not be swayed or intimidated by anyone who argues or “reasons” contrary to His word. Furthermore, I am not ashamed of the gospel (His word in general, the message concerning the person and work of His Son Jesus in particular), for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek (non Jew). [Italics added]
jkrump // November 9, 2008 at 5:16 am |
LAST NOTE: You write “We live in a country of laws, not based on the bible. Were we living in a theocracy, you would be entirely correct.” Let me suggest that God is STILL Sovereign (ruler) in/of the Universe (I think that would include America).
The fact that America, or any nation doesn’t recognize God’s Sovereignty does not change it. Let me illustrate: In 1982 I was dispatched by God to Kenya (through Africa Inland Mission) as a summer volunteer. During my stint I ran across people (Kipsigis) in rural parts of Kenya who were incredulous when I told them I came from America- they simply could not conceive of someone black as me as being from America. They believed that over the generations blacks in America had “lightened” from intermixing. They pointed to my tanned, curly-haired American partner and said we thought blacks in America looked like “him”. The point is that they had a faulty notion that was obviously not true (accurate, according to reality). Did that change the reality? Absolutely not! Neither has God’s sovereignty changed! (You betta’ reconize
)
By the way, thank you for provoking me to “reason through” what I believe and more importantly, why.
God bless you.
ReyMac // November 9, 2008 at 8:50 am |
Thank you for your posts, and your answers. But I do have to iterate the question that has been asked and not answered: You are basing your entire argument on the assumption that homosexuality is a choice. How are you supporting that assumption? It’s the same question that’s been asked before: did you choose to be heterosexual? An honest reflection upon one’s own sexual orientation will immediately yield a negative answer – No. We didn’t choose to be attracted to whom we’re attracted. And this is reflected many times throughout the natural world; homosexuality does not only exist in human beings.
I am not questioning the belief that you hold, nor you assertion that Jesus is the Lord of All, though I am not certain that I agree. What I am saying is that we live in a country where there are many different peoples, and I believe Jesus said “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” This really just translates to the golden rule, “treat others as you would like to be treated.” You are conflating the two things – religious beliefs and legal discrimination. For me,though we disagree on the basis of homosexuality, I don’t ultimately believe that we necessarily are at loggerheads forever on civil rights issues like Proposition 8.
That’s what the post and the discussion is for.
God Bless You, too.
Mandy // November 9, 2008 at 11:48 am |
Well, Donnie McClurkin chose not to be gay anymore and I have cousins who chose to take a break from being straight to go with being gay. They have proven that they’re still attracted to men though. I believe bisexuals prove in their own way that sexual orientation is a choice. In addition, texts in Psychology speak of sexuality as being fluid, not stagnant, so I guess, in a sense, I choose to be heterosexual. I can’t wake up one morning though and say “I don’t feel like being African American today” and then I won’t be. That’s not possible so I believe it is unfair to compare homosexuals to African Americans (also, it is very harsh to imply that we are on the side of slavemasters and lynchers just because we don’t support homosexuality. Very harsh.).
Anyway, as much as I love my family, I do not have to love and support their “lifestyle” and they accept that so I chose to vote yes on Prop. 8 because I believe that to vote no would have gone against God. Yes, slavemasters did use the Bible to support slavery, which worked since the Bible has some parts that are “vague” enough to be misinterpreted, but the Bible does not specifically spell out that being any other race besides White is a sin like it does with homosexuality. Besides, if God supported homosexuality, they wouldn’t have to “become heterosexual” to reproduce. Meaning: they would be able to reproduce amongst themselves without having to bring in someone of the opposite sex. Just my humble opinion.
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can break my heart. « Spreading the Word // November 13, 2008 at 10:51 pm |
[...] civil rights for all, and those who wish to curtail the civil rights of a distinct minority. I wrote a short while ago that the same restrictions were placed upon black and white Americans in this country within my [...]
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can break my heart « Will Rhodes Portmanteau // November 13, 2008 at 11:38 pm |
[...] civil rights for all, and those who wish to curtail the civil rights of a distinct minority. I wrote a short while ago that the same restrictions were placed upon black and white Americans in this country within my [...]